Microsoft, doing it’s part to make the world a better place.
No it won’t.
240 million grandmas, cheapskate businesses, and cash-strapped public schools will continue to use whatever operating system their computers already have, forever, until they break, security implications be damned.
Windows
10XPTook this picture a couple of days ago:
JSYK a lot of embedded devices use XP and 7, and some of those manufacturers pay for extended support. The military also pays for extended support for XP
But yeah, most of those devices are not patched and vulnerable AF.
I always laugh at, after being in the military and a government employee, things being marketed as military grade. So what, it runs on windows server 2003 and hasn’t been in production for 20 years?
From what little I’ve seen, there’s a divide between old and new tech.
Like how headset visual tracking for attack copters was a thing already back when Nintendo released the Virtual Boy, alongside the fact that there is still equipment in service running software that had to be millennium bug patched.
My mother-in-law ran an Army reserve center in the 1990s. They were still using DOS once XP came out because the Army wouldn’t pay for the upgrade.
I was aware of that, but had imagined that newer machines would have slowly migrated to something else. I’m also always astonished by the fact these are running full OSes.
No manufacturer wants to take the risk to reinvent a wheel that may be less secure.
I mean, yeah it would be ideal of the manufacturer created their own OS but I also know that nearly everyone hires the cheapest, least skilled devs for projects like this.
And not all of them are full OSs, XP had a bunch of creative ways you could remove system components to make basically a kiosk with almost no other functions.
i saw a kiosk once booting opensuse
This is a huge business opportunity for someone with the know-how. They should offer a consulting service that does the following:
- Catalogs the software your company is using.
- Identifies which ones have native Linux versions, which ones work well under WINE, and which ones will need to be replaced with either a different native application or an online equivalent.
- Installs and configures Linux with a Windows-like UI on your old systems, and gets them set up with the replacement software.
Offer a support contract that severely undercuts anything Microsoft is
gougingselling. Offer basic training, too.Anyone who does that can make bank.
Would also need to get a burner phone number w/ answering machine to take calls from 240 million grandmas, cheapskate businesses and cash-strapped public schools for any & all tech support questions until the end of time, because if there was an issue with system stability in any way whatsoever, or if the router went down or the printer stopped working, they’d assume it was the fault of ‘the guy who changed everything’.
Linux is great & everything, but this sounds like a recipe for utter disaster, not a way to make an easy buck.
I can’t agree with this more. People like to sell Linux as a magic bullet, but it does not and will not everything everyone needs without maintenance and people really like to hand wave or downplay that need.
Sure, you could find a solution for what they’re using now. What happens when they need something else and they’re so tech illiterate that they don’t even know what you did to their machine? They wouldn’t even know how to install new software, and if they did, they wouldn’t know they need to click the Linux version, etc. It’s not always about feasibility and available options, it’s often about the fact that people just won’t fucking know what to do. Even if you assume there are enough options available, they won’t know how to do so.
And every step Microsoft takes to shoot themselves in the foot, and every step Linux takes to make this easier, everyone comes screaming about how much this could change things.
But until Linux has a HUGE market share - like in the 30-70 percent range - developers are not going to take it seriously and alleviate this process. Even with how well MacOS does, this is not even a solved problem entirely there - there are still hang ups and still software that doesn’t get released for mac. Linux would have to pass where Apple is today for this to become remotely accessible to an every day person.
And even THEN there’s the question of different Linux distros.
Most people only need internet access. Look at Chromebooks.
While I don’t really disagree, look at the market share of Chromebooks. If “most people” only needed internet access, “most people” would be on Chromebooks by now. It’s not like they’re unknown anymore.
Not really how the market works. Inertia is huge, brand image (Apple) is huge, social pressure (Apple) is huge, simply not knowing is huge. The newcomer always has the disadvantage to get converts. (Not to mention many of the people that only need internet have iPads only.)
Yes, but Chromebooks are far from “newcomers” these days. They’ve been out a while. Many people who grew up using them in schools are now making their own purchasing decisions, etc.
I lived in this town and there was this"computer and pawn" place. They did this to people’s computers. I constantly had people come into the computer place I worked at very confused. Not knowing why they needed a password to install things, where is Microsoft office, how do I print, etc. Most of these people didn’t have the money to put windows back on, but, those that did, did real quick. All this did was scare people away. If we started replacing Linux on people’s computers it needs to come with a intro tech support plan and a short intro class explaining the basics.
At this point the people that benefit the most easily are those who only need email, Web browsing and or are old. People who work off their machine are going to use Windows and that former demographic usually just use their phones or a tablet now. At least in the US
Yeah hard pass.
Will I take advantage of the heavily discounted used market this causes? Maybe. (Assuming they manage to actually convince people they should move to 11, which also sucks.) But there’s good reason not to be IT for people who can’t manage it themselves. It’s a huge headache.
Easy fix: don’t offer support
More expensive easy fix: contract with a call center in India to do “support” for you.
Anyone who does that can make bank.
See, the key flaw in your plan is expecting companies to shell out to upgrade their systems. Putting aside organizations who’s infrastructure can’t realistically transfer to a new system without scrapping it entirely, pretty much every business will run their systems until they have literally no other choice (ie it is functionally unusable/affecting sales) instead of “losing money” upgrading. MS stopping updates won’t push them over that line, at least not for a while.
… pretty much every business will run their systems until
Cousin Vinny gives them a little taste of ransomware and reminds them your upgrade plan is actually a great deal
Meh, ransomware won’t really drive an upgrade plan. That’s what backup is for.
Any business incompetent enough to get owned by ransomware without a recovery plan isn’t exactly the type with $ to spare for a migration.
I mean, yeah, if ethics are no barrier, you could probably make it work, hah. That said, there are much better money makers at that point than being tech support for businesses to switch to Linux.
That’s actually a decent idea if people are using boilerplate windows software. Unfortunately institutional software is unlikely to cross over, and even if similar software can be found to replace private users’ needs, there is going to be resistance to change. This doesn’t even touch anyone using specialized software. The resistance will be commensurate with the differences in workflow and usage between the windows and Linux software.
I mean, the whole point is people don’t want to change. The only way you’d win people over easily is directly cloning their windows setup.
And there’s a cost to that change. Reduced performance. Could easily be measured in lost $ or increased costs.
Yeah, and it’s likely way less costly to the company to just buy a new win 11 computer than it is to pay an employee to train on new software. Not to mention the cost of paying someone to find someone to do a Linux conversion, paying the person doing the conversion, and the loss of productivity as the person learns. Not to mention the cost of changing IT infrastructure, hiring new IT people to manage those machines, etc.
There’s a reason companies don’t just switch at the drop of the hat. There’s too much commitment and institutional knowledge already and moving is not a simple change.
Companies won’t pay. Even SMB.
There’s way too much stuff that only runs on windows, their users are used to windows.
You’re telling them to spend a lot of money to transition, and take on a lot of risk.
It just ain’t gonna happen.
Look at the current VMware issue to see what companies will do.
I feel the issue is if you’re successful with this idea and get on radar of Microsoft, they will make sure to snatch away all deals from you by bidding even lower. They have money to lose. Small firms generally don’t.
ROFL, and for a half of that cost and none of the risk, companies will just drop in new windows computers and keep the status quo…
My 76 y/o spouse loves Linux Mint. The 2017-bought desktop was deemed insufficient for Windows 11 and now runs Mint.
If all they use is a web browser and solitaire then putting them on Linux is super easy. Got my dad on Mint for years now. I recommend KPatience for solitaire needs.
If all they use is a web browser and solitaire, they should consider a tablet. Even as a techie, with many devices, I spend the most time using my iPad because it works so well for “media consumption”.
Of course it’s only 6 years old, slowing down, and is no longer supported with patches, so maybe that’s not a solution. At least it’s less to go in a landfill
yeah, other than the obvious “haha-ing in Linux” (which… I also use Linux) - the REAL answer is people will just keep using the outdated Windows until THAT computer dies it’s natural death.
When that time comes, would that create a period of insane amounts of scams?
Yes.
Also third world countries where people can’t afford to spend their yearly salary on a mouse.
I wish you were right. Instead what we will likely see is an increase in year to year E-waste until the majority is phased out into land fills.
I dunno, computers aren’t like phones where your provider is offering you incentives to chuck your old one every 2 years. There’ll be an increase of waste from businesses for sure, but I think most people don’t really pay attention to their security updates and will just keep using their pcs until they need a newer one for personal reasons (playing newer games, old one bricked, etc)
0patch offers microcode patching for EOL windows systems, I have a subscription for my Win7 gaming box and will be getting one for my win10 daily driver, because FUCK win11.
It’s a good company, they’ve won several bounties from Microsoft for 0-day fixes and have had their code published in official microsoft updates.
And tech-savvy windows users(those who need it) switch to windows 10 LTSC iot edition
I’m seriously thinking of trying Linux when Windows 11 is forced. My computer has the specs to run it, but I’m just tired of Windows and Microsoft.
Unless you run some really niche software or are a heavy gamer, you’ll likely have no problems and enjoy it. Most software that you need for daily use has a FOSS equivalent that’s equal or better. Usually those are also available straight from the package manager (if not there, then most likely Flatpak).
Just stick with a well supported distro like Fedora, Ubuntu, Debian, or PopOS, and it’ll be super easy.
I’m actually looking forward to the perfectly good Linux boxes that are bound to be popping up at yard sales or on ebay once that happens.
I suggest Mint for new users (and lazy old users like me). All of the simplicity of Ubuntu, without Canonical’s shit
I almost went back to Mint on my last rebuild, but ended up going with Debian + Cinnamon. So far so good.
Not a good choice for people who want to play games. Debian focuses on stability so their packages are typically outdated.
Ah, so them Arch is the way to go.
Any rolling distro that you enjoy is the way to go here I suppose. I’d also hitch my wagon to and arch variant personally but tumbleweed wasn’t terrible either. Just not my mojo.
There’s lots of distros, rolling & LTS based, that have up to date packages.
Ubuntu without snaps or nagging about Ubuntu Pro. I was annoyed with both so I switched over from Ubuntu Mate to Linux Mate and have been enjoying it.
What about Arch? I was told:
mint is garbage. The only thing easier about mint or any of those “noob friendly” distros is the initial install
any time you want to do anything outside of its strict little ecosystem it becomes a massive headache
arch’s wiki is unparalleled
Mint is for people who generally don’t want to do weird shit, which is most new users. If you do, it’s not any harder than doing it on Ubuntu or Debian.
If you want in-depth tinkering, go with Arch. If you want newer packages than a Debian base but not necessarily much tinkering, go with Tumbleweed. You’re just going to have to learn a different package manager for each.
I personally am most comfortable in an environment that has
apt, and I don’t change much on my systems, so Mint is nice. My servers are straight DebianSounds like neckbeard bullshit honestly, Mint is just fine. Arch is “better” if you like tinkering
Even heavy gamers are getting a much better experience on Linux these days (yay Proton!). There are a couple of anti-cheat systems that are still trouble some, but honestly if the developers don’t want to to put in the much smaller amount of effort to make it work on Linux, I don’t want to give them my money.
Sadly I have niche software and I’m a heavy gamer. But now it’s becoming as much of a headache to deal with Windows threatening dumb upgrades that I might as well switch and fight with compatibility.
The more we do it, the more companies will be incentivised to make Linux work.
I’m kind of a power user.
Gaming. Multimedia (Video, Image, Audio). Application development. Web development. Getting into cybersecurity, so using a lot of VMs. Watching videos.
I’ve been making a Linux transition. So far, the stuff I still need to iron out:
-Adobe. Make it work somehow or replace. Can use it on a windows VM 🤷♂️. Happy to replace because fuck em. Working through options.
-VST managers for digital audio workstation. Most aren’t on Linux (spitfire audio, iZotope, IK multimedia, iLok). Haven’t begun trying to make them work. I e heard most can be configured in WINE.
-old MIDI program not working. No audio for MIDI. One program works, another doesn’t 🤔
That’s it. Everything else is working. Big challenges Ive had:
-bluetooth gaming controller took a lot of effort. Works great now.
-Epic games through heroic… Through steam on Linux… Through remote play on my phone… That was difficult. But it works!!
-remote desktop troubleshooting. Works fine now.
Oh and I can’t get windows subsystem for Linux to work in my windows VM on my Linux machine. 🤷♂️
windows subsystem for Linux to work in my windows VM on my Linux machine.
Ignoring the blasphemy of that, the fact it doesn’t work may prove that we are, indeed, living in a simulated universe. lol
- You can use Affinity Designer 1 just fine on linux using bottles, search for it.
- For VSTs you can use this: https://github.com/robbert-vdh/yabridge
Cool! That’ll help for the free VSTs, and paid ones that are poorly licensed/managed, but certain paid VSTs use license managers so you can’t redistribute them.
So like, iLok is a license manager. I might buy a fancy amp simulator vst, I’ll have the rights for it to be on 3 machines. Great. 1 is on my windows machine. It’s verified through ilok, which has Windows and Linux versions.
Now specifically for ilok, they have a web verification system, so there may be a workaround. But not for all ilok VSTs, it depends on the license, so… Well see!
But I have literally >$1000 worth of other VSTs that are similarly managed through the other 3 I mentioned. Like I said, I’ve read that there’s mixed results with them through WINE, so I’m hoping for the best. Still setting up.
Oh and I can’t get windows subsystem for Linux to work in my windows VM on my Linux machine.
You need nested virtualization since it’s a VM within a VM. It’s supported by KVM/libvirt but may need additional config. I believe virtualbox now supports it too, but that it’s a bit undercooked.
My Win10 machine is an audio workstation (DAW) so I am curious how the migration to Linux will work out. Reaper has a Linux port so that should be OK. Hopefully all the VSTs will still work and I’ll have to check on my Focusrite Scarlett. I am not buying a new machine just to run this stuff as it’s just a hobby.
I haven’t powered it up in several years, but I keep an old Windows XP machine with my DAW software on it. I just always ran it offline and moved files with a thumb drive. That said, I never did try a native Linux solution.
Check out Bitwig Studio too if you haven’t already. It can even open Ableton and FL project files.
Niche hardware meaning an asus laptop
Eh, my last Asus ran Linux fine. Though until Ubuntu 18.04 came out, I had to patch the i2c driver and recompile the kernel in order to make the touchpad work lol.
Fedora, Ubuntu, Debian, or PopOS
What about Arch? I was told:
mint is garbage. The only thing easier about mint or any of those “noob friendly” distros is the initial install
any time you want to do anything outside of its strict little ecosystem it becomes a massive headache
arch’s wiki is unparalleled
Arch wiki is a useful resource, even for users of other distros. But seriously, do not use Arch Linux unless you’re an experienced Linux user. I have no idea why so many Arch users recommend their distro to new Linux users. Even the Arch wiki tells you it’s not a distro for beginners:
It is targeted at the proficient GNU/Linux user, or anyone with a do-it-yourself attitude who is willing to read the documentation, and solve their own problems.
Arch is cool until it isn’t. If an update breaks your system, then you better know how to fix that by yourself, because the wiki is definitely not the holy grail that some people make it out to be and the community can be toxic as hell. Also, Mint is based on Ubuntu so I would not call that a “little” ecosystem. In the end, each distro has its pros and cons and you have to weight & figure out what fits best for you and your personal needs.
I chose Arch for gaming because SteamOS is based on it. The only issue I had was when ricing. Steam just seemed to work after enabling proton. I’m rather new, but I havent had my system break yet and everyone talks like its inevitable. Idk what to believe but I’m having fun.
Hahaha, right, right.
Most users would get lost on a Linux box, even with the truly great user-friendly distros today. I use a few for testing and things like LXC, and it’s still frustrating at times - and I started with UNIX 35 years ago.
You’re seriously over estimating the capability of most users.
People can’t find controls in Windows when I guide them.
I’m seriously thinking of trying Linux when Windows 11 is forced.
Sorry for the uncalled advice, but if you’re considering it, you might as well try it now. Specially in ways that don’t limit your access to Windows, such as live USB and dual boot (Windows and Linux in the same machine, at the same time). So if you do decide “I’m ditching Windows”, in the future, you’ll have an easier time doing so.
Yup. Don’t wait until the W11 upgrade is imminent. Start it now, so you have a year of experience under your belt and can help your friends switch too when they’re forced to upgrade.
Pretty much all computers have the specs to run linux. Of some flavor.
The only thing stopping me from switching over to Mint is procrastination.
The hardest thing about Linux Mint is installing all of your software. It’s daunting even for very established users.
I moved from Ubuntu to LM a few months ago and I’ve enjoyed it.
Do yourself a favor and do it now. Maybe then you’ll be able to help others move to Linux who haven’t done so before.
I have switched a dell laptop that windows 10 didn’t support to pop os. (It was 7 years old) My whole family has used it for a few years to do everything without any issues. Ironically I have had problems with the Pop OS install on my newer more powerful machine.
Yeah I’m not as much of a fan of PopOS as I thought I’d be. I have it on my daily driver laptop, and every system update seems to introduce some wacky bug/glitch or another. Nothing major, just random small annoyances that usually get fixed in the next update.
It dual boots Pop and Debian, and Debian performs flawlessly. It’s a Thinkpad, so Linux support has always been fantastic. I’m thinking of just dropping the PopOS partition and going back to my original love, Debian.
Then don’t hesitate! You could easily install both side by side, in case you need some Windows exclusive software.
… Linux can run on a potato.
There are multiple distros with live-cd (or usb drive) where you can boot to a desktop environment without installing anything if you want to try them.
Start trying Linux now using WSL (Windows Subsystem for Linux). It’s a great way to dip your toe in the water, and your computer can run it today.
Or you could try Tiny11, which is basically Windows 11 but much less Microsofty 😉
Yes, because normal people always throw PCs away when they stop getting security updates.
That’s a lot of new Linux computers.
I want to believe.
They could move to FreeBSD
lol no, there’s several very valid and pressing reasons linux’s desktop marketshare is terrible.
Once upon a time, updating your hardware every couple of years was essential. Your new hardware was a lot faster for normal use, and everyone benefitted.
Over time, however, people could wait longer between updates, as new hardware didn’t impact daily use all that much.
The powers that were grew displeased, and then decided to force people to update more often. Newer hardware had shorter lifespans, software forced newer hardware, software as a service became king.
The End?
Well you see, they learned their lesson from Windows 7 and having to support it for years longer than they intended to.
They know the same thing will happen for 10, because they are literally forcing a bunch of hardware out, even though all of it can technically run Windows 11 and just don’t have a TPM 2.0 chip. They made this choice, this was a business decision and they know it’s coming.
So what did they learn? To not give it away for free. Now they’re rolling out a program to charge consumers for access to extended updates for Windows 10.[1]
Back in the Windows 7 days, they only did that for corporations, extended updates with a cost attached. Now you, the consumer, get the joy of paying for these updates as well.
Not only are they purposefully creating trash, they’re also squeezing people for money in the process.
They’re doing exactly what they did with Windows 7, this time they just plan to charge you for the convenience.
Stay classy, Microsoft.
“Individuals or organizations who elect to continue using Windows 10 after support ends on October 14, 2025, will have the option of enrolling their PCs into a paid ESU subscription.” ↩︎
You forgot the “best” part, which is that requiring TPM 2.0 is purely self-serving for Microsoft in that it serves no purpose but to make it more difficult to run non-Windows OSs on the hardware in the future.
Nobody needs a TPM except for the copyright cartel trying to destroy computer owners’ property rights.
Oh I mean, I thought that was implied, but yeah, go off about it, it fucking sucks!
EDIT: In response to your edit. ACKSHUALLY the TPM requirement is a big deal for corporations, because it does help increase corporate security. The thing is, the average user doesn’t actually need that extra security so much and will likely never use it so making it a requirement for the consumer-level Windows is abject bullshit.
ACKSHUALLY the TPM requirement is a big deal for corporations,
Like I said, “nobody.” Corporations aren’t people; they don’t count.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://www.piped.video/watch?v=FxUsRedO4UY
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
I upgraded my CPU in preparation for 11 but have since installed Linux instead. It seems like you’re saying simply having a TPM makes it harder to use other OSs?
TPM doesn’t make running linux harder. People just have their biases and will happily spew BS as long as it goes with their biases.
I don’t know why, but your post made me question if TPM 2.0 expansions outside the processor are a thing. Turns out they are as long as your board supports them. I was just able to get one for mine for $25.
If you have 8th gen intel or ryzen 3000 series (maybe 2k but not 1k) emulation is built into the CPU so you don’t need it.
I still have a 4th Gen devil’s canyon in my main pc. It still outperforms most current gen chips apparently, so I plan on running it til it burns the house down.
Yep, before I upgraded recently, my motherboard had a port for TPM, but it was only able to support TPM 1.0, so it was still SOL.
Old box is now running Linux and a handful of network services.
It says it’ll be free for Window 365 users. Ie. 70 bucks and that includes office.
Obviously it’s not great, but it’s better than adobe.
Windows 95 cost two hundred 30 years ago.
I honestly don’t have an issue paying for updates of EOL software. But I also grew up in a time when that was normal. I remember paying for iOS 3.
Consumers can also pay for extended Windows 7 updates, of course. I also don’t see why just that (consumers can also pay) part is bad and much worse than a stupid requirement to force users to pay.
I installed linux. I only use browser and vlc and it works great. I am not buying a new machine when old one works just fine.
Again, Install Linux, get rid of Microsoft shit.
For us Linux users it’s just a fire sale. Diet cheap PCs incoming.
None of these PCs need to go to landfill. Linux
Tell that companies who would have to convert their software and / or re-train their employees.
Realistically, most companies replace their PCs every few years. So there are probably relatively few machines running in offices that don’t meet the requirements.
In my experience it is more like every few decades. There’s still PCs running XP or even something more ancient. If a company swapped their systems during the whole “W10 is the only OS you’ll ever need” period, then they might be fucked.
Obviously depends on the company but well run companies shouldn’t have any problems unless they have very specialised machinery but those probably already run Win XP or some shit.
And no company should seriously expect free software support for the end of time.
Companies can get support for much longer though. They won’t be affected by this issue as much as people think.
Ebay is going to be great for a few years though
Eventually when Microsoft will go too far, this is what will happen. Companies already have to do all this training, and given the right OS and IT support there’s plenty of Windows like solutions that would be immediately intuitive for people who just browse and use a few specific programs
You’re right, none need to go…
…but most people are too tech illiterate to even know there’s an option outside windows. Hell, I dated a girl who though windows was the operating system on apple devices (she used the term windows and operating system interchangeably)
Most of those PC are business. People will continue using windows 10 past that date.
Sounds to me like an opportunity for Linux and Linux derivatives.
Windows 11 can suck my stinky cock. Windows will successfully force my LAZY ass to Linux. I am already testing the waters with my laptop.
Hello, it’s me, a landfill
Those systems are going to be dirt cheap Linux boxes in the very near future
Or at least a couple will be for me
Or folks will just continue to use 10.
