genuinely curious as to why people choose that brand, are alternatives really that bad?
As I see it:
- you pay for the hardware and software, which is fine, but
- if you want to upgrade the OS, you have to pay once again, but this doesn’t work if your hardware model stops being supported. Why pay for something with a limited life expectancy?
- you cannot get rid of bloatware, only hide it
- software is made specifically to be only compatible within their ecosystem. If you want to build up on existing software and hardware, you either stay in their system and keep paying them or start anew with a freer alternative.
- I find it ridiculous they use fancy names to name even their support staff instead of just calling it support staff. Why make things complicated?
- I don’t understand why they use pentalobe screws instead or regular ones (with a line or a cross section)
Feel free to correct me, I may be misguided.
- if you want to upgrade the OS, you have to pay once again,
That used to be the case for Mac OS, but it hasn’t been true for a number of years.
but this doesn’t work if your hardware model stops being supported. Why pay for something with a limited life expectancy?
That’s an issue with all IT products and a lot are worse than Apple products.
Also, if you’re talking solely about Macs, then be aware that Mac-specific Linux projects exist to keep older machines running for longer.
- you cannot get rid of bloatware, only hide it
That’s also true on other OSes, like Android and Windows 11.
- software is made specifically to be only compatible within their ecosystem. If you want to build up on existing software and hardware, you either stay in their system and keep paying them or start anew with a freer alternative.
The idea is that in the best case, everything works out of the box. You often don’t get that with less-integrated solutions.
- I find it ridiculous they use fancy names to name even their support staff instead of just calling it support staff. Why make things complicated?
That is presumably to try to market Apple as an upscale brand. But does it actually bother you as a customer?
- I don’t understand why they use pentalobe screws instead or regular ones (with a line or a cross section)
Apple wants you to pay for repairs, I think we can safely say that. They’re not unique there either, though maybe more persistent on that front than most other manufacturers.
On the Pentalobe screw front, albeit somewhat random, I do know that all Samsung SATA & SAS 2.5” SSDs use Pentalobe screws to hold them together. Unsure if there are other Samsung products that use them as well but I deal with their drives on a weekly basis.
- you cannot get rid of bloatware, only hide it
That’s also true on other OSes, like Android and Windows 11.
You can get rid of bloatware on Android, though. I use a Note 9 which has the stupid Bixby button. I used adb to uninstall the applications associated with Bixby as well as other Samsung bloat and now if I so chose I could bind that button to different actions like media controls.
The biggest bloatware problem is third party bloatware, installed by OEMs or carriers. This was a huge problem on systems like Dell and Android before the Pixel. One reason so many people switched to Apple was the clean design and relative lack of bloat. Windows and Android both stepped up their game in response.
I use
adb pmfor uninstalling things too. However, iiuc basically what you’re doing there is making these apps inaccessible to the user. If you’re resetting the device, the removed apps will return immediately because they’re always part of the Android image.
This is a low effort troll post.
os upgrades are free
bloatware is less on ios than on any other mobile os
the rest is idiocy.
save your time. Move on.
calm down
A friend who’s extremely technically competent told me he’s happy to have someone else be the sysadmin for his phone, and finds Apple more trustworthy than Google in that role.
iPhone/ipad user here. I also have managed 1000’s of mobile devices for over a decade.
I’ve never paid for an OS upgrade.
Apple supports devices longer than most large android OEMs.
Not much bloatware that I can think of.
Yes, software built for one OS doesn’t usually go to another OS without much issue. If it does it’s because it’s a PWA. Also, I have money.
Who cares what they call their staff?
Flat/Philips head screws are the worst. Nearly anything else is better. Years of working with HP/Compaq, Dell, BlackBerry,super micro,Nortel, Cisco, Ford, Mitsubishi, bmw, Suzuki, Yamaha equipment has made me realize that.
The last paid update was 10.8 Mountain Lion in 2012. It seems it was $30. The last full priced update was 10.5 Leopard for $129 in 2007.
I was a die hard Android fan boy switching my phones every 9-12 months, rooting them, flashing custom ROMs and customising them in general. I was basically the most anti Apple guy you can imagine and mocked everyone who bought Apple devices.
4 years ago I got my hands on an iPhone XS Max for a few quid. Thought might as well try the device out which I’m making fun of just for the sake of it.
4 years later I’m sitting on my iPhone 14 Pro Max, my 2020 iPad Pro 12.9, AirPods Pro 2, Apple Watch 6 and 2 Apple TV boxes.
Apple really knows how to hook their users. The ecosystem is by far the best and won’t ever be reached by Android due to the simple fact that every device is made by one manufacturer.
For example: you setup the Apple TV box and it detects a nearby iPhone and offers quick setup. Setting up the second Apple TV box it even asks if it should mirror everything from the first Apple TV. I put my AirPods in my ears and Apple TV detects them and asks if it should connect to them even though they were never connected.
Another example: I’m watching a movie on my iPad with my AirPods in ears. I get a voice memo on WhatsApp on my phone. I play the memo and the AirPods switch instantly to the iPhone and after playing the memo back to the iPad.
These are only two examples about how well the ecosystem works. Yes, it’s kinda a loophole, once you’re in it, you can barely escape it. But I appreciate that shit just works. You have to experience it to really understand. Also I don’t feel the urge to switch the phone so often anymore, not only because there are not many models to choose from but the UX is so nice and smooth feeling, even on older devices. Not to mention the clean UI that isn’t cluttered and packed with ads like on some Android phone OSs or the Fire TV OS (I believe Xiaomi does this?).
To clarify a few of your points: No you don’t need to pay for OS upgrades. Support for older devices is good. The latest iOS 17 is available on the iPhone XR from 2018. Not to mention that you don’t need the latest OS version to have a fully functional device. Apple devices don’t really have bloatware on them. Only some Apple made apps like Books, Health etc. which can be fully uninstalled. Ecosystem is pretty closed yes. While you can use, let’s say, third party smart watches or Bluetooth headphones, the experience will not be as smooth as it’d be with AirPods. Apple finding fancy names for normal stuff is just their marketing strategy of making you or their products feel special. Not a fan of it either but don’t really care tbh. Also never really cared about the screws they use on the devices since I never had the urge to open them.
This right here. Clean device UIs, excellent hardware, and an ecosystem that is unmatched. Everything works together nicely. There is nothing like it in the Android/Windows world.
I was an Apple fanboy for years with the whole iphone, ipad, airpods setup too. Integration is pretty nice but I started getting into privacy.
Now I use grapheneos on my pixel, arch on my thinkpad, and selfhost my stuff. I wouldn’t change a thing.
Yes, it’s not as seemless as apple but I have alternatives for everything and they still sync nicely. It’s not a setup for everybody but it’s a good one if you want to own your data.
There’s a market for the smallest niche. The most important thing is that you are happy with the setup you’re running. It doesn’t matter if it is Android, iOS, Mac OS, Windows, Linux… if it works for you it’s good. Sadly people still fight about what’s better - especially when it comes to phones. And I was part of that fight. But from todays standpoint it just doesn’t make any sense. Use what suits you.
I mean I’m still a part of the fight as well because I advocate for privacy in our world of diminishing rights. Using a bloated android os isn’t really privacy respecting and even though apple is better than your most bloated samsung, it still isn’t as good as a degoogled phone. I still have an inherent bias for Androids because of so much more freedom.
However, I agree with you. We’re a small niche, most people just want shit to work and at that point this doesn’t even matter.
I absolutely respect your effort regarding privacy! I honestly don’t want to know how much data about me is collected by companies monitoring the internet even though I barely post anything on social media. And I believe most people - me included - are just too lazy to really take care of their own (internet) privacy and/or think „I have nothing to hide anyways“.
Anyways what I was trying to say is that the fight shouldn’t exist. Everyone should use what they want without having to argue why this or that is better or not.
Your air pods switching things works with Samsung devices. Not only that it will work with Windows. I can be watching something on my laptop and get a call and it’ll switch over automatically.
You use apple products because you like the aesthetic, the user-friendliness, and clout.
I use apple products because I get them as hand-me-downs from work every tech refresh.
We are not the same.
Totally valid.
Similarly, I have an iPhone. It was provided by my employer for work purposes. It’s about as enjoyable as having a small stone in my shoe that can’t be removed. Oh, and the other shoe is half a size too small.
My Pixel is so much easier and makes more sense. I carry both when working and use the iPhone only when absolutely necessary.
And I feel the same about Android. I had one at a previous employer and hated it. It’s all about what you’re used to and prefer.
OS Updates have been free since 2013 and pretty much all software as well, except for services and pro stuff like Logic. So you got something wrong there.
Support for older hardware goes pretty far back, compared to Android (though that is getting better from what I read). At some point they just gotta let it go or it will hold back development. I don’t see why that’s such a big problem. You can still use everything and get security updates just not the latest features.
Bloatware, I don’t know what you’re comparing it with. Windows laptops are often filled with crap from the manufacturers and I hear Windows 11 even drowns you in it on a fresh install. Apple products come with all the basics and all of it is at least pretty good. They have a lot of extra software available to download but it won’t preinstall that or even nag you about it. And most of the time you can just delete even the main apps.
I’m all in on Apple hardware. I’ve got a Macbook Pro, iPad Air, iPhone, Watch, Homepod Mini and Apple TV. I started with Apple in 2010.
I used Windows before and until about 5 years ago for work. The later Windows versions became more and more confusing to me. For my work it is a horrible experience since you always have to go many extra steps to do anything (reason is that web development is mostly unix based). For gaming it is of course the best option but I lost interest in PC gaming and even back in XP times I used to customize Windows to look like OS X. But it was fine back then. I tinkered with it a lot and had fun times. But now I just want to be productive.
Why not Linux? Because I don’t want to tinker anymore for my main computers and I’m happy with what I have. I used it a few times on a Raspberry Pi and it’s not my thing.
Why not Android? For testing stuff at work I have an Android device and I hate everything about it. Also I would miss the ecosystem of iOS and interoperability with my other Apple devices.
The good:
I like the build quality and focus on details. Apple had a rough phase after Jobs passed and Jony Ive had too much power over the design. In that time it was very much true that Apple was all about form over function. That is not true anymore since he left.
Their main apps and services are kept fresh and improved so much that a lot of them even became my apps of choice for the category. I use Notes, Mail, Music, Podcasts (but I’m unsure about that one), Calendar and Safari. In other categories I prefer third party apps, like Things, 1Password.
You can feel pretty safe from malware or spyware because everything is sandboxed and access to user data is kept behind bars until explicitly allowed.
Resell value is pretty high even for older devices.
The bad:
Apple sometimes introduces some new service and then basically stops improving it. Siri is the best example here and it has become a laughing stock even inside the Apple fanbase. Homekit is another. It gets a few very tiny updates here and there but the only big ones were a visual overhaul of the Home app and the introduction to Matter, which so far had only little impact or even made it worse for some users (luckily not me).
Fancy names, yes it’s a bit weird, they want to brand everything.
Their presentations feel very cult-like and have lost their charm since Jobs is gone.
Repairs are expensive. I’m lucky so far that I never needed that .
I hate Apple Stores. They are crowded, boring and have less and less third party products available. Staff there is annoying but that’s true for any store these days.
To conclude, I like it, I don’t see the appeal in current alternatives.
I like Apple’s hardware but their software is not ideal.
I have an M1 Macbook Air that is honestly the best laptop I’ve ever used. I will run this thing until it dies. I’m running Asahi Linux so I don’t even have to deal with MacOS anymore.
As for my smartphone, while I am concerned with privacy and control over my devices… I think privacy is more important. While I do not trust Apple with my privacy, I trust them over a literal advertising company.
I will run this thing until it dies.
Good luck with that. My 2011 MacBook Pro still works. I’m pretty sure it’ll outlive me.
What do you like about the macbook?
Well the battery life and cpu is pretty good. Other than that the physical durability is shit. I’m still gonna use my thinkpad
Are you running that natively? I didn’t know it was ready for daily driver use.
I waited for the speaker support. Seems pretty stable in my sample size of one.
They say pioneers take the arrows and the settlers take the land, but in your case sounds like the pioneers get speaker support! Thanks for the update.
At this point I’m just one more person on the pile but:
I used Android for years because I like open stuff, but iPhones are just straight-up better. There’s all kinds of weird broken stuff on Androids, things that don’t quite work or where the interface separating two parts of the device is a little awkward… my iPhone just does what it’s supposed to do. It’s hard to explain but there’s just a clear difference in the quality level of the software. They seem like they polished it until it was genuinely done, as opposed to just shipping the thing and moving on with something else. Also the photos are better (same thing – they clearly make it a priority). Also the security is much better, weirdly enough. I had to fight with the iPhone for quite a while trying to get a dashcam app, until I finally realized that the issue was that there was absolutely no way for an app to access the camera if it wasn’t the foreground app with the camera light on. Android? Fuckin’-a Mr. App you can watch this person sleeping, just make sure you ask about it when you’re first installed (and then refuse to install if the person says no).
Etc etc.
MacOS computers are pretty similar; good hardware, software isn’t perfect but mostly solid, BSD backend with lots of solid tooling. They just generally are high-quality and reliable.
I think mostly the reason is, they have this weird cultish following that means they can charge a high price for their stuff and don’t face constant pressure to make it a little crappier in hopefully-they-won’t-notice ways to save a buck. So, you pay a little premium but what you get is good.
I have an iPhone, MacBook, and run Linux on a desktop pc. Only thing I have to add is that on iOS the only apps you can’t remove is phone, messages, settings, App Store, and safari which I wouldn’t consider bloatware. On macos I think u can remove pretty much anything using workarounds. Rn apples arm laptops are some of the most efficient on the market, iPads are pretty good tablets, and iPhones work great with both of those products.
I used Android phones since the G1 and decided to give it a punt after a few phones in a row developed problems less than 2 years old. Well it turns out Apple devices just work and keep on working so I now have a few.
Still don’t want a Mac though.
I’ve never used an Android that felt like it was out of beta testing yet and they stopped making Windows phones and BlackBerrys (BlackBerries?). I only used my phone for texting and email and my significant other talked me into an expensive-ass iPhone 8 and I’ve just kinda kept going with them. I have an 8 and a 12 and I plan on using the 12 until it falls apart and then go back to the 8 until that one dies too. If e-ink phones aren’t a thing by that time I’ll get a dumb phone and separate device for Authenticator passcodes.
As for why - I don’t need the latest and greatest features on my phone. It may be an old way of thinking but I’d rather use a computer and dumb phone over a smart phone on its own.
After having read the title I was gonna say I make my own applesauce and dont use apple jams or jellies. Good thing I read the rest of the post
This, folks, is why people who respect their readers capitalize words.
I’m a bit confused, OS upgrades are free… I’ve been back and forth between iOS and Android a few times, I avoid lock-in to either ecosystem by using 3rd party cloud services like Bitwarden, Signal, Dropbox free (10GB), etc. I can switch over in half an hour. Most recently they started supporting the open standard Matter so they can use same smart home things as Google or Home Assistant.
As for “bloat”, well there’s a few apps I don’t use, most can be uninstalled, if not it only takes up a bit of disk space, not RAM/CPU so they don’t impact performance and I keep my phones for many years. Right now I got an iPhone 13, it runs like new, it’ll last for a long time.
Are we upset about what they call support staff? All companies do weird marketing stuff, it matters not.
I don’t use a Mac, I run Linux on my gaming PC. If I didn’t game I’d be equally happy with a Mac, the new hardware is great and the OS doesnt get in my way. In contrast with Windows where one feels like a hand-puppet.
In addition to the things everyone else has brought up:
- MacPorts gives you everything on any BSD or Linux machine, on your Mac.
- iTerm2 is the best terminal on any platform, there’s amazing capabilities in it. You didn’t know your terminal was so inadequate!
- AppleScript, Automator, and every programming language on Mac; Shortcuts, Pythonista, LispPad, & Hotpaw BASIC on iOS; make automation of the system and programming little tools incredibly easy. Everything is accessible to the power user, it’s not like Linux where some GUI features are scriptable, and others you’ll be writing a C++ program to reach some API because it’s not exposed to anything.
As the old ad says (which got me to buy in): Sends other UNIX boxes to /dev/null
